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#zulip

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@kuketzblog da widerspreche ich vehement.

Es gibt #proprietär|e #Silos welche qua #SingleVendor & #SingleProvider-Aufbau als #InformationBlackhole agieren (u.a. #WhatsApp, #Signal, #Threema, #Session, #Telegram, #discord, …)

und es gibt #OffeneStandards die #Wahlfreiheit zwischen #Clients, #Plattformen, #Servern und #Providern ermöglichen (u.a. #IRC, #Zulip, #RocketChat, ...) und echte #E2EE mit #SelfCustody aller Schlüssel ermöglichen (u.a. #XMPP+#OMEMO & #PGP/MIME)...

Natürlich steht es Menschen frei irgendeinen großen, zentralisierten Anbieter zu nutzen, nur wird dieser am ehesten zur #Enshittification neigen und mit #PII wie #Telefonnummern entsprechende Begierlichkeiten wecken!

#discord IS LITERALLY THE PROBLEM!

I'm shure fecking #dread has better moderation and I'd rather use #MicrosoftTeams + #Slack cuz those at least have proper #moderation tools.

  • And I'd rather subscribe to the #LKML and see my inbox getting hosed than using any shitty #SaaS!

Case in point: I'd rather #SelfHost all my comms infrastructure than to ever use something like Discord or any other #GDPR-violating SaaS that is just enshittification.

I'd rather recommend people to instead choose a tool that does everything but horrible to go with multiple smaller & good tools

Check @alternativeto and @european_alternatives for options.

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@axbom I too have been doing some similar evaluating of alternatives. I would recommend adding:

- #Zulip (Slack, #Mattermost competitor) More info: c.im/@sbb/114034480079879818
- #Conversations/ #Gajim/ #Prosody (is similarly E2E encrypted, but additionally federated, unlike Signal), this is my #XMPP "stack" at present (more info: c.im/@sbb/114032786446300932 )
- #DeltaChat (is federated, unlike #Signal) More info: c.im/@sbb/114043962394278098
- #flarum , a forum similar to Discourse, but will run on a #RaspberryPi, unlike Discourse
- #calibre-web for your ebook collection
- #shiori, for private cloud bookmarks

C.IMBhante Subharo (@sbb@c.im)@adamhsparks@rstats.me @dangoodin@infosec.exchange +1 for Zulip; they worked hard on performance improvements in the latest major release. They know Mattermost is ahead of them in popularity, and have more of a "good faith" culture. Might try it myself in the medium term

Explored Zulip further. There's a lot to like about it. It's very well built, and the documentation is fantastic. I really appreciate all the self hosting and scaling information.

My issue is the UI. I am okay with it, and could use it no problem. I'm looking for parents to use it though, and they're going to have trouble. Everything is too small and noisy.

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@AdminKirsty @delta nodds in agreement

Add to that there are sufficient tools that allow for #secure, #E2EE #communication.

  • Like: Even if they don't like #PGP/MIME there's nothing that prevents them from supporting #XMPP+#OMEMO or having any #secure means to communicate.

I do go out of my way to implement better alternatives to existing bad option...

TBH, #unencrypted and thus #insecure communication should disqualify every #company and #organization as a matter or principle and it's high time #GDPR & #BDSG make support for proper #encryption mandatory, regardless if #2FA or general communications!

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@xoron I don't want to discourage you at all - in fact I think your goal is not just noble but also worth aspiring to.

  • My recommendation is always to scout out existing solutions, protocols and standards and see if those can be salvaged / used and if not, reason why. #PGP/MIME may seem crusty but a good UI can make it easy. Same.goes for #OMEMO & #OTR...

But whatever you do, please "DO NOT DIY ENCRYPTION!"

  • Instead delegate it to drop-in libraries (i.e. crypto++ for C++) that are well, maintained and getting audited.

Prioritize features early on and make a decision what you want and if/how these can be accomplished. If necessary, have different modes / functions one has to context-switch (i.e. videocalling can't work in an airgapped network unless your callers are in the same (W)LAN).

  • If possible choose to stay platform-independent in terms of tech, so like #WebCall, #JitsiMeet, etc. you can simply package that up with nw.js... (Except if you need like a minimalist, (n)curses-style TUI tool like #enc)

User-test early on. Espechally with "#TechIlliterates", if you can.

  • Focus on a #MVP (minimum viable product) early on.

Write #documentation early on since that'll remove headaches. And I don't just mean #CommentYourCode but go deep and explain in detail why you chose something. This will help not just you.

Make yourself a list what you like and dislike from those.

Don't be afraid if your #App can't tick all the boxes at first release. Rather feel free to slowly ibtegrate them.

Needless to say I do sincerely wish you good luck and only the best in terms of success.

nwjs.ioNW.jsnwjs
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@GrapheneOS Signal is too able to hand over stuff, and they too will.

Tho thankfully we live ib a world where we don't just have Ketchup (Telegram), Majo (Signal) and Mustard (#WhatsApp / #FacebookMessenger) as options, but various others to fulfill case-by-case needs.

Like @zulip / #Zulip, @delta / #deltaChat, #IRC & #XMPP+#OMEMO like @monocles / #monoclesChat & @gajim / #Gajim.