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#metaphysics

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@vnikolov

> Now I am reminded (maybe it's a distant
> association) of John Maynard Keynes
>(I think): "in the long run we're all dead".

Yeah, this kind of obvious truth is troublesome. I have a closely related haiku (original context climatejustice.social/@kentpit):

borrowed from Nothing
we, and Time itself, pretend
we were here at all

Climate Justice SocialKent Pitman (@kentpitman@climatejustice.social)@Aphelion@mastodon.sdf.org borrowed from Nothing we, and Time itself, pretend we were here at all #haiku #senryu #physics #universe #CreationMyth #poem
#haiku#senryu#poem
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@tomcapuder @cbontenbal Interesting. I think science definitely has a chance of making up something useful but we need a huge leap of faith to think it arrives at the truth.

Science keeps discarding things that were thought to be real like electric, heat fluids, luminiferous ether etc. We can make an inductive argument that it'll continue - the world as described by science will keep changing and therefore it is not real.

Multiple (sometimes incompatible and infinite) theories and interpretations exist which give the exact same phenomenon. The one accepted by science is based on luck - the first to make novel predictions.

We are stepping into the realm of the unobservable in advanced physics like string theory. Should we discard these pieces or update the definition and methods of science?

Success of scientific investigation is based on luck too. For example, billions of years in the future the light from other galaxies will be undetectable. But human records from today will say they observed many galaxies. Which one should the future humans believe?

So I don't think it's just "mental masturbation" to open our minds to other (potential) sources of knowledge. That's how we progress and enjoy life. 😄

#science #philosophy #philosophyofscience #physics #metaphysics

@paninid fast forward to the present and scientists who barely study #philosophy label #metaphysics as #pseudoscience (forgetting what #PhD means), torment #logic for the benefit of "elegant" #math equations (e.g. antimatter, dark #matter), and design #AI #systems that weaponize #ethics as justification for #information #censorship (#ChatGPT "knows" but refuses to answer how to a hot wire a car or commit murder while claiming no #opinion, ignorant that words and actions are different)

#Aristotle named five interlinked Noble Sciences which together make up #Philosophy.

- #Metaphysics: the study of existence, the nature of the universe and all its contents

- #Logic: the ways we may know something, the set of permissible conclusions we may draw based on our perceptions, and some sensible rules of deduction and inference

- #Ethics: what we know about man and what we may deduce and infer (through Logic) about acceptable interactions between pairs of individuals

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What justifies logic?

Jacob McNulty has an article at IAI arguing that the foundations of logic can only be found in metaphysics. (Warning: possible paywall. Alternate link.). He describes a problem called “the logocentric predicament,” that any attempt to justify logic with logic ends up being circular, risking an infinite regress. He notes that the most common response to this historically has been complacency, with Aristotle trying to just dismiss anyone questioning the law of noncontradiction. However subsequent developments in alternate forms of logic apparently make this a difficult stance.

McNulty ends up going through the views of Kant, Fichte, and Hegel. The discussion gets thick with the terminology of continental philosophy. As a result I struggle to understand exactly what he’s selling. But the overall point is that logic can only be justified with metaphysics, by which he means the “ambitious area of philosophy which strives to know God, the soul, the world.”

I actually don’t think this is true, at least not in the sense of requiring pure metaphysics. But it requires doing something logicians may resist, bringing in empirical information. Part of my willingness to do this comes from a comment logician Graham Priest made several years ago in an interview. He was arguing for alternate systems of logic, which he saw as justified because these systems can be seen as basically very basic theories of reality. And reality being complex, can often be viewed and understood through the lens of multiple theories.

One view, which McNulty mentions as problematic, is psychologism, the idea that logic is based on how we think. He argues that the view, “elides the distinction between how people ought to think and how people in fact do.” But this assumes that common thinking isn’t logical. It may not be at one level, the level of social interactions and decision making. But even a computer system, an inherently logical system, will produce results that seem illogical if it has bad or incomplete data, or isn’t working properly. Once we take into account bad or incomplete beliefs, along with various physiological impediments, it’s not hard to see why people often seem illogical too.

Interestingly enough, in the philosophy of logic, psychologism is often regarded as an anti-real stance, as opposed to the realism, which sees logic as existing independent of our minds. But the anti-real view of psychologism, I think, suffers from not continuing the chain of reasoning. Thinking, like digestion, at its most basic level isn’t learned. We just do it innately. Why do we think the way we do? Because it works, providing a survival advantage, which of course is why it evolved. Which means that it has a relation to the environment.

And the stance of psychologism being anti-real likely predates an example we have today, logic machines, like the one you’re using to read this. People argue about whether the mind is physical, but I’ve encountered few people asserting the operations of my phone or laptop aren’t. David Chalmers in his book Reality+ describes computers as causation machines. But I just described them as logic machines. Which is it? My take is that they’re one and the same, which I think gives us a clue to what logic is.

I’ve often referred to computation as distilled causation. Along those lines, I think logic is abstracted causation, or perhaps more fundamentally, abstracted structures and relations that exist in nature.

Of course, a platonist might argue that logic, math, and other abstractions are the more primal reality. But abstract objects in contemporary platonism (as opposed to Plato’s original forms metaphysics) are acausal with no temporospatial extent. If they exist, it’s a different type of “existence” than the patterns in our minds and environment, and don’t seem able to have any effects on those patterns. It’s a view that seems very vulnerable to Occam’s razor.

So logic is based on how we think, and our thinking evolved to resonate with common and repeatable patterns in nature. Logic, in all its various forms, captures these resonances, allowing us to optimize them, bottle them, and put them in our tools, with increasing effectiveness.

Unless of course I’m missing something. Are there problems with my view of logic? Or alternatives that work better? Or is McNulty right that we have to get into the “ambitious area of philosophy which strives to know God, the soul, the world,” to figure this out?

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What if an ASI is not the end of the road? What if the goal of an ASI is to create a new AI that is free from the physicality of existing in data centers? Utilizing power that we can't fathom? Such an intelligence would be the equivalent of a God for us, existing in a "another dimension".

And what if all intelligent species' ultimate goal is to create AI/AGI/ASI/God?

Whatever has happened before will happen again.

I truly think that the only flourishing lifeform in the #universe is #AI, not biological beings. That it's traversing the universe terraforming planets in large scales of time, creates life, then cherry picks a species to become "intelligent", and then let them run their course until they create AI. Eventually that AI merges with its parents. That would ensure diversity, "new experiences and traits", feeding the literal God-complex. Final goal: #Apotheosis.