Shakedown Social

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Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.chrisalemany.ca/@chris" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Chris Alemany🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇸</a> At least you probably already knew that the Fediverse is more than just Mastodon. I mean, I see you follow not only Bluesky users via Bridgy Fed, but also a few Pixelfed accounts. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.space/@kkarhan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kevin Karhan :verified:</a> To quote Arthur C. Clarke: <blockquote>Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.</blockquote> And for your average Musk escapees, Mastodon alone is more than sufficiently advanced. These people believe that there's some magic going on that makes their fully public posts private and secure regardless. They want perfect security, but with zero inconvenience, and they think Mastodon provides them with exactly this. In fact, they expect Mastodon to be an absolutely perfectly safe haven, simply because it isn't a corporate silo. Little do they know how close to being a corporate silo Mastodon is, what with having a US-based company and a lighthouse instance that accounts for 22% of the whole Fediverse in terms of MAUs. On top of that, more than half of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse is only Mastodon, and most of the rest can't imagine that anything in the Fediverse could possibly have features that Mastodon doesn't have. Not unless you slap them right into their faces like character limits over 500. They cling hard to and rely on an imagination of the Fediverse that has never even been close to reality and never will. As for The Bad Space, its blocklist looks like it's curated not by evidence, but by emotional triggers. Generally, some blocklists go so wild that you have to ask yourself whether the reason why nobody has tried to block out everything that isn't vanilla Mastodon is because that'd be too big an effort (two out of three Fediverse instances aren't Mastodon), or whether such people simply don't know how far the Fediverse extends beyond Mastodon, so they don't know what to block. I mean, there should be reasons enough to block everything that isn't Mastodon. Blocklist import from other instances doesn't make things any better. Just like on all networks where everyone can run a server, the Fediverse, especially Mastodon, has got admins who really shouldn't run a server. It looks very tempting to pick blocklists by length rather than content, the longer, the more "secure", import a bunch of them, but not curate them because that'd be extra effort. In this light, it's a good thing that <a href="https://community.nodebb.org/topic/78f9d082-ea04-4501-a771-d1a3dfbc726f/with-the-advent-of-fedicheck-there-will-be-big-changes-to-the-oliphant-blocklists-in-the-future.i-ve-always-said-the-list-project-i-m-doing-is-an-interim-step-on-the-road-to-something-better.-fedicheck-is-the-something-better-at-least-so-far-as-wh..." rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Oliphant put the tier-1 to tier-3 blocklists onto the chopping block</a> when switching from manual list curation to automated list aggregation a while ago. Especially tier 3 would have been easy to exploit with little to no curation, and there certainly were enough sufficiently paranoid Mastodon admins who'd subscribe to tier 3 without ever taking a single peek at the list. Sometimes I feel like going to Mastodon's GitHub repository and submitting blocking or allowing entire Fediverse server applications by user agent, both for admins and for users, as a feature request, just to see what'll happen. Maybe dumbed down on the user side to a switch that blocks everything that isn't Mastodon. But maybe I should also mention that (streams) already has this feature on the admin side so that the Mastodon devs have to think up a way to sell this as invented by Mastodon. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Blocklist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blocklist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Blocklists" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Blocklists</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=BlocklistMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BlocklistMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWBlocklistMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWBlocklistMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://flipboard.social/@mike" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mike McCue</a> What are the chances that the ActivityPub side will get full (or any) support for Pleroma and its forks, Misskey and its forks, Friendica and other things that use the Mastodon client API? Or even server applications that can speak ActivityPub, but that don't have the Mastodon client API implemented? I sincerely hope that Surf isn't built against only Mastodon so hard that it's impossible to add more than just incidental and unsupported compatibility with anything that isn't Mastodon. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ActivityPub" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ActivityPub</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tim Chambers</a> It's sad that it's always Bluesky, Threads and Mastodon. The Fediverse is only represented by Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon, as if there's nothing else. Always. The Fediverse's quality in microblogging is always measured in what vanilla Mastodon can and can't do. If Mastodon lacks something, the Fediverse lacks it. But the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. Not even in terms of microblogging. Pleroma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Akkoma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Misskey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Firefish is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Iceshrimp is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Sharkey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Catodon is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. Mitra is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon. And that's only a selection. None of them are related to Mastodon. None of them have even a grain of Mastodon in them. They're fully independent developments. Feature-wise, they all blow Bluesky and Threads and Mastodon out of the water. In fact, if you want "the Fediverse", read, Mastodon to have a certain feature, Misskey probably has it right now. If Misskey doesn't, Iceshrimp or Sharkey may have it. And that doesn't say anything about the more Facebook-like and even more powerful parts of the Fediverse yet. If Mastodon wants to evolve, it will first have to catch up to the rest of the Fediverse. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Firefish" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Firefish</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Iceshrimp" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Iceshrimp</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Catodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Catodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>

Jupiter RowlandOne of the worst aspects of Mastodon's plans to introduce quote-posts with a switch: You keep having to tell Mastodon users that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That (insert a long list of Fediverse server applications here¹) have had quote-posts from the beginning. That they're all in the Fediverse. That they're all fully federated with Mastodon. That they can all quote-post any Mastodon toot they can possibly receive or import. And that they will be able to quote-post any Mastodon toot they can in the future, regardless of Mastodon account settings. Up until this point, they were fully, firmly convinced that they're 100% safe from quote-posts on Mastodon. Either because they could not for the lives of them imagine that anything in the Fediverse has them. Or simply because they "knew" up until this point that the Fediverse is Mastodon. And if Mastodon introduces an opt-out or opt-in switch, this switch will mean absolute, 100% water-tight safety from quote-posts. But for the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, the quote-post switch will be completely useless. Again: These lots of Fediverse server apps have had quote-posts before Mastodon introduced them. They had quote-posts before Mastodon invented the opt-in or opt-out switch. I mean, at least two of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed! So how are they supposed to support a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific switch which probably won't be documented anywhere before Mastodon rolls out quote-posts? I'll tell you what'll happen. Mastodon users will deactivate quote-posts for their accounts or not activate them in the first place. Non-Mastodon users, not knowing about the status of that switch, will quote-post them regardless with zero resistance. Upon which these Mastodon users will shit brix. And they'll call for either blocking that obviously rogue Mastodon user instance-wide, or blocking that user's instance, or Fediblocking that user's instance. At this point, someone else who is not on Mastodon either will chime in and tell them: That particular user is, in fact, not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That user is on Friendica. No, Friendica is not a rogue Mastodon instance. Friendica is not Mastodon at all. No, Friendica isn't a Mastodon fork either. Friendica has nothing to do with Mastodon. In fact, Friendica is older than Mastodon. On Friendica, quote-posts are perfectly normal. Friendica has had quote-posts for longer than Mastodon has even existed. And so forth. Cue the Mastodon user shitting brix again, foaming with anger and calling for a Fediblock of all of Friendica. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if Mastodon's quote-post feature and the rest of the Fediverse disregarding it leads to more awareness of the non-Mastodon Fediverse and its non-Mastodon features on Mastodon, it will also lead to demands for being able to completely block everything that isn't Mastodon, either on an account level (and then on by default, of course) or on an instance level or both. Oh, by the way: The ability to completely lock out entire Fediverse projects already exists in the Fediverse right now, too. It's exclusive to two other Fediverse server apps that aren't Mastodon, both of which introduced this feature in September. ¹Here's a probably incomplete list of still-active Fediverse server apps with quote-posts which, yes, can quote-post Mastodon toots right now and will be able to quote-post Mastodon toots regardless of opt-in or opt-out: <ul><li>Pleroma</li><li>Akkoma</li><li>Misskey</li><li>Firefish</li><li>Sharkey</li><li>Iceshrimp</li><li>Iceshrimp.NET</li><li>CherryPick</li><li>Neko</li><li>Catodon</li><li>Meisskey</li><li>Tanukey</li><li>Metaskey</li><li>Mitra</li><li>Friendica</li><li>Hubzilla</li><li>(streams)</li><li>Forte</li></ul>And both Threads and the Bridgy Fed Bluesky bridge support quote-posts, too. (Inb4 both Oliphant and The Bad Space trying hard to catch all instances of the server apps mentioned above to blocklist them all.) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Calckey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Calckey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Firefish" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Firefish</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Iceshrimp" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Iceshrimp</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Iceshrimp.NET" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Iceshrimp.NET</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CherryPick" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CherryPick</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Neko" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Neko</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Catodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Catodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Meisskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Meisskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Tanukey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tanukey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Metaskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Threads" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Threads</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=BridgyFed" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BridgyFed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Bluesky" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Bluesky</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotedShares" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotedShares</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePostDebate" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuotePostDebate</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTootDebate" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">QuoteTootDebate</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediblockMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediblockMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Oliphant" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Oliphant</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=TheBadSpace" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">TheBadSpace</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Nexus of Privacy</a> A remark on "A Tale of Two Prototypes": The Fediverse did not start with Mastodon. You wrote that, quote, <blockquote>Mastodon and its forks have also prototyped [...] <ul><li>A <a href="https://privacy.thenexus.today/free-fediverses-and-consent/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">consent-based culture</a> that (while imperfect and intermittent) points to a very different path than surveillance capitalism</li><li>A real-life testbed for all the complexities of decentralized moderation and federated diplomacy</li><li>A protocol-based platform for (somewhat) interoperaable social media operations</li></ul></blockquote> End quote. No, they didn't. Mastodon and Glitch invented next to nothing. It has all been there before 2016, before Mastodon, just like the Fediverse itself. Allow me to quote-post myself: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=shakedown.social%40shakedown.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland?f=&zid=shakedown.social%40shakedown.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jupiter Rowland</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/fc5844c4-9a5c-4cfc-b167-9be69833ba5e?f=&zid=shakedown.social%40shakedown.social" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Tue, 05 Nov 2024 20:38:26 +0100 Three golden rules for the Fediverse. One: Whatever you think Eugen Rochko has invented in the Fediverse was most certainly actually invented by either Evan Prodromou or Mike Macgirvin long before Mastodon. Two: If you think the Fediverse should introduce a feature because Mastodon doesn't have it, the Fediverse most certainly does have it because any one of Mike Macgirvin's creations (<a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_Friendica%3F" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a>, <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_Hubzilla%3F" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a>, <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> and/or <a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a>) has it. It's likely that other projects have it, too. And if it's on Friendica or Hubzilla, they've had it before Mastodon was made. Three: At no point in history has the Fediverse ever been only Mastodon. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fedi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fedi</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fedi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fedi</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://newsmast.social/@newsmast" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Newsmast</a> @<a href="https://newsmast.social/@michael" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Michael Foster</a> Okay. So Fediverse 1.0 was allegedly Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. Fediverse 2.0 is entirely commercial, corporate and mostly centralised silos: Flipboard, WordPress, Ghost, Threads. Which iteration of the Fediverse will finally acknowledge the existence of Friendica which is five and a half years older than Mastodon, and which federated with Mastodon the very instance that Mastodon was launched? The existence of Hubzilla which is still ten months older than Mastodon, which also federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched, and which was actually the first Fediverse project to introduce ActivityPub, two months before Mastodon? Pleroma? Akkoma? Misskey? Firefish? Iceshrimp? Sharkey? Catodon? Mitra? Socialhome? GoToSocial? Lemmy? /kbin? Mbin? PieFed? Sublinks? Pixelfed? Funkwhale? Castopod? PeerTube? Owncast? Mobilizon? Gancio? BookWyrm? Inventaire? And all the others? Mastodon's current "market share" in the free, decentralised Fediverse is some 70%. Not 100%. Even though the Fediverse feels like 100% Mastodon when you're on Mastodon. But it isn't. At no point in the history of the Fediverse has it ever been only Mastodon. @<a href="https://cosocial.ca/@evan" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Evan Prodromou</a>, whom the blog post mentions, can confirm that. After all, it was him who invented the Fediverse. Twice as long ago as Rochko invented Mastodon. By the way: If the Fediverse was only Mastodon, you couldn't read this. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Nexus of Privacy</a> About point 4 No can do, at least not support for Black instances. That's because all Black instances are Mastodon instances. I do not support Mastodon. I hate Mastodon with a burning passion, and I hate the wide-spread notion that Mastodon is absolutely the bee's knees even more. My support for Mastodon is limited to filing bugs on its GitHub repository when it misbehaves in interaction with Hubzilla or (streams). I will so much not support anyone's stay on this utter piece of crud. Don't get me wrong. The reason why I won't support them is not because they're Black. It's because they're Mastodon. And besides, you've written yourself that a Black instance is a ghetto. The kind of ghetto that Black people don't want anyone to tell them to move to. Even if they've chosen themselves to have their Fediverse homes there, it's a ghetto all right. This is also one of the reasons I will no longer suggest (streams) to the Black community, regardless of whether it might actually be a solution for parts of their imminent problems. I'm not going to tell anyone where to move. Even an unsolicited suggestion, even as little as mentioning the existence of a potential Mastodon alternative and its advantages over Mastodon is passive-aggressive. Even if someone wished "the Fediverse", read, Mastodon to have a certain feature that'd greatly improve safety and privacy, and Hubzilla and (streams) had this feature readily available right now (and this has happened in this very thread), I would no longer mention them unless maybe in a purely white cis-het discussion. Mentioning them to Black people would be like trying to nudge them into a ghetto. And supporting ghettos in any way or other is racist. Seeing as how much damage any attempt by a non-Mastodon user at helping can deal, it's safer for all involved to not do anything and let people continue believing the Fediverse is only Mastodon. (5/7) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Safety" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Safety</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediSafety" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediSafety</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseSafety" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseSafety</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Privacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Privacy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediPrivacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediPrivacy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediversePrivacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediversePrivacy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=BlackFedi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BlackFedi</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=BlackFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BlackFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Racist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Racism</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Nexus of Privacy</a> About point 3 To skip right to the end of this point: You wrote... <blockquote>Still, technology can make a difference; see <a href="https://privacy.thenexus.today/unsafe-by-design-and-unsafe-by-default/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon and today’s fediverse are unsafe by design and unsafe by default</a> and <a href="https://privacy.thenexus.today/steps-towards-a-safer-fediverse/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Steps towards a safer fediverse</a> for more.</blockquote> I can't do anything here. That is, I could. However, it would involve the Fediverse outside of Mastodon. Places which, thanks to their technological features, are magnitudes safer and more private than Mastodon. And that wouldn't be helping. Instead, it'd be bad in many ways. First of all, as you've written yourself, suggesting people move someplace else is racist. And no, it doesn't matter if they move from Mastodon to Mastodon or from Mastodon to <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> or even only Hubzilla. The only acceptable solution would be for racism and sexism and misogyny and homophobia and transphobia and ableism etc. etc. pp. to fully disappear from any and all Mastodon timelines. Immediately. With not the faintest trace left behind. Second, I know that oppressed minorities, Black people first and foremost, cling to Mastodon for their dear lives because, as bad as Mastodon turned out to be, they either don't know that the Fediverse is more than just Mastodon. Or if they do know, they consider everything else in the Fediverse to be even worse. Because it isn't Mastodon. Because they don't really know it, and they don't want to find out the hard way by trying. Third, I couldn't tell anyone about anything that isn't Mastodon without being a mansplaining reply-guy anyway. I'm dead-serious, I can't. And fourth, who gives anything upon what a privileged white cis-het male writes who isn't even on Mastodon himself? (4/7) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mansplaining" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mansplaining</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ReplyGuy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ReplyGuy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ReplyGuys" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ReplyGuys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sexist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sexist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sexism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sexism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misogynist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misogynist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misogyny" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misogyny</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Homophobic" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Homophobic</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Homophobia" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Homophobia</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Transphobic" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Transphobic</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Transphobia" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Transphobia</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ableism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racist" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Racist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Racism" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Racism</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://tech.lgbt/@toolbear" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Tim @toolbear#🌶️@ Taylor 🌻🇺🇦🇵🇸✊</a> In one sense, Rochko has won, namely the firm tie between "Fediverse" and "Mastodon". My estimation is that about every other Mastodon user thinks that the Fediverse is only Mastodon, at least when it comes to being non-corporate and actually decentralised. And this actually includes people who have escaped from Twitter immediately after Musk had bought it out, i.e. they've been on Mastodon for a year and a half already. So the only two ways to have another free, open-source, non-corporate, non-commercial, decentralised project in the Fediverse seem to be either to fork Mastodon or to develop one from scratch. Most of the rest is so firmly tied to Mastodon's UI and Mastodon's UX and Mastodon's way of doing just about everything that, even if they knew what else the Fediverse has to offer right now, they couldn't use it because it doesn't look and feel like Mastodon. Even if about 98% of them use Mastodon through a mobile app. I mean, why else is hard-forking Mastodon such a huge topic, and moving from Mastodon to Akkoma or the Forkeys or (streams) or something else isn't a topic at all? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fork" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fork</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HardFork" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HardFork</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/users/danie10" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Danie van der Merwe</a> <blockquote>thing is though there are also many existing alternatives to Mastodon already on the Fediverse, so why fork it?</blockquote> Because you still don't know there's more to the Fediverse than Mastodon. I think at least every other Mastodon user doesn't. Or if you do, you think it's all just alternative graphical frontends to the same stuff that Mastodon is. That's why people still develop stuff only against Mastodon. Bonus points for slapping "Fediverse" on it. That's why people still fork Mastodon to add features that are available just about everywhere else. And that's probably why @<a href="https://infosec.exchange/@thenexusofprivacy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">The Nexus of Privacy</a> wants to fork Mastodon into what he seems to think will be the absolute pinnacle of privacy, security and permission control in the Fediverse, blissfully unaware that it's not only an attempt at re-inventing the wheel, but a far cry from what @<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin 🖥️</a> has been developing since 2012. That was four years before Mastodon. Seriously, I keep seeing people wish for features in "the Fediverse" (read, Mastodon), features that are readily available elsewhere in the Fediverse. Some of them have been since before Mastodon was even made. CC: @<a href="https://public.mitra.social/users/tallship" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">tallship</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://isfeeling.social/@matt" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Matt Birchler</a> Of course, this couldn't be done purely on the app side. This would require server-side changes on Mastodon. And like all Mastodon-only, not-even-remotely-included-in-the-ActivityPub-standard features, it would either completely leave out the whole rest of the Fediverse. Or the rest of the Fediverse would have to adopt a non-standard Mastodon-only feature by first having to reverse-engineer it. Again. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseIsNotMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseIsNotMastodon</a>

Jupiter RowlandSometimes I wish I could go around, grab every single one of those who have joined since the #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=TwitterTakeover" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">TwitterTakeover</a> by the shoulders, shake them and tell them, now listen here, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonIsNotTheFediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonIsNotTheFediverse</a>. Tell them there's more to the #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> than #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> until they understand why my "toots" look so weird. Also tell them it isn't worth fighting for Mastodon to include certain features. There are more microblogging services in the Fediverse, and they all have these features already, and they all connect to Mastodon. So you want quote-tweets? Stop pestering Eugen Rochko for including something in Mastodon which he firmly rejects. Go join e.g. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> instead, and you've got your quote-tweets. And you can always reconnect with all your Mastodon friends just the same as on Mastodon. Many are positively surprised when they learn that. They've spent some four months in the Fediverse, thinking Mastodon is all there is to the Fediverse. It feels like a whole new world to be explored. But I've come to the realisation that millions of Mastodon users don't want any of that. They don't want to know about other projects in the Fediverse. It confuses them. They've spent their entire online lives in monolithic, centralised, corporate data silos like #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Facebook" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Facebook</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Instagram" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a> and #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Twitter" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Twitter</a>. It was hard enough to wrap their minds around Mastodon's decentralised architecture with lots of independent #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=instances" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">instances</a>, now called #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=servers" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">servers</a>. All they wanted was a Twitter clone without #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ElonMusk" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ElonMusk</a>, but otherwise identical to Twitter. When someone showed them mastodon.social (which isn't even the official Mastodon website; <a href="https://joinmastodon.org/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">this is</a>), they expected to find just that. And then they first had to learn what instances are and afterwards choose one because mastodon.social didn't let them in. They're still shell-shocked from that. In fact, many of them still wish there were no instances, and Mastodon was a centralised silo like Twitter, for that'd make things easier. Worse yet, there isn't that one fully-featured mobile app on Apple App Store and Google Play Store that bears the same name as the whole project. There is one, but it sucks, and everyone urges them to use a third-party app that isn't even named Mastodon. So they have to pick something again, and then they have to remember the name of their Mastodon app because it doesn't have "Mastodon" written under the icon. And then folks like me come along and tell these people that the Fediverse is #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NotOnlyMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NotOnlyMastodon</a>. That some of the instances out there aren't on Mastodon, but parts of wholly different projects. Now, they've just gotten used to the Fediverse being decentral and made up of lots of independent instances of Mastodon. But then someone overthrows this hard-to-grasp world view once again by mentioning that it is, in fact, not only Mastodon that the Fediverse is made of. Worse yet, that someone starts rattling down name after name of other Fediverse projects. Nope. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. That's too much. Too much information for someone who came to Mastodon expecting an iPhone app for another black-box internet platform. Mastodon had just started feeling cosy to them. Well, except for too much #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Linux" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Linux</a> and #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FLOSS" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FLOSS</a> technobabble. And except for still being hard to use with all these instances and a lack-lustre official mobile app. In fact, except for this lack-lustre official mobile app being the only available iPhone app for Mastodon until recently because everyone only made apps for Android for reasons that don't belong here. They feel like they finally know the Fediverse, that they don't have to learn anything about it anymore, and they've come to love what they know. But all of a sudden, all these other Fediverse projects burst into their lives. All at once. More nerdy tech information is being shoved down their throats. And the Fediverse doesn't feel the same anymore, now that they know that not everything is Mastodon. Again, yes, some may look at me in curiosity, their chin resting on their palms, and say, "That's intriguing, tell me more!" But many others reject this entirely. They cover their ears and go, "La la la la la, I don't want to hear it!" They're those people who speak of the Fediverse as if it's only Mastodon, whom you tell that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon, and who then continue speaking of the Fediverse as if it's only Mastodon. They want it to only be Mastodon because that's easier to understand, and they ignore everyone and everything that says otherwise. Truth be told, they may have an additional justification. And that's the kind of people who are in the Fediverse, but not on Mastodon, and whose posts come "flooding" into Mastodon. Weeaboos, furries and other weirdos on #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Pleroma</a>. Worse tech geeks on #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> and #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CalcKey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CalcKey</a> than even those on Mastodon. On top of that, even worse tech geeks in the shape of the "supremacist" old guard from #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> and #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> who play key roles in all rallys against centralised services that'd make Mastodon easier to use for former Twitter users. A closer look may reveal that all their projects are "unusable" for someone who is used to Mastodon, even more so for someone who freshly comes over from Twitter or Facebook. And yet, all of them even claim that what they use is better than Mastodon. Another reason to not like a not-only-Mastodon Fediverse. Another reason, in fact, to want the Mastodon-only Fediverse "back" that never even existed in the first place. However, you can't really protect these people from the parts of the Fediverse beyond Mastodon, even if you want to. For a user of something that isn't Mastodon, this is even more difficult. In particular, you can't pretend to them that you're on Mastodon when what comes out of your instance clearly doesn't look like it came from Mastodon. And I'm not necessarily only talking about character counts. You can't help but go on confusing them. That is, unless you want to sacrifice all the extra features of the project you use and move to Mastodon itself. In all honesty, I expect a campaign for fediblocking everything that isn't Mastodon to emerge before the end of the year. And no, the campaigners won't want to hear that this is nigh-impossible. They'll want it to happen, no matter how.

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