@Chris Alemany The Mastodon devs are talking as if either the Fediverse is only Mastodon, or the Fediverse as a whole doesn't have quote-posts.

Neither of this is true. The Fediverse has had quote-posts since July 2nd, 2010 when Mistpark (now known as Friendica) was launched. Mastodon toots have been quote-post-able since Mastodon itself was launched, for when Mastodon was launched, it immediately federated with at least two Fediverse server applications that have quote-posts, namely Friendica and Hubzilla, a fork of a fork of Friendica by Friendica's own creator.

Nowadays, at least Pleroma, Akkoma, all other Pleroma forks, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, CherryPick, Sharkey, all other Misskey forks, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte can quote-post Mastodon toots with no problem.

And Mastodon won't be able to stop them. No, seriously, it won't. Not with a non-standard, proprietary, home-brew opt-in or opt-out switch that doesn't tie into anything that the other Fediverse server apps have. And whatever switch Mastodon is working on will not tie into anything that already exists.

Let me put it this way: Hubzilla has the second-most advanced and fine-grained permissions system in the Fediverse. It goes well beyond most people's imagination. It works on three levels: for the whole channel (that's similar to a Mastodon account), for individual contacts (that's "followers" in Mastodon lingo, but Hubzilla doesn't distinguish between followers and followed), for individual content. (streams) and Forte are the only ones with an even more advanced and fine-grained permissions system.

But even they don't have a quote-post permission setting. And they have permission settings for just about everything. You want reply control in the Fediverse? Hubzilla has reply control, and (streams) and Forte have reply control on steroids. But what they don't have is a quote-posting permission because that's next to impossible to control across the Fediverse even with the most advanced permissions system.

As @Mike Macgirvin ?️ (professional software developer for almost half a century, designer of two Fediverse protocols, creator of Friendica and Hubzilla, inventor of nomadic identity, creator and maintainer of (streams) and Forte) says: The only way to make your posts un-quote-post-able is by not posting in public and not allowing everyone in the Fediverse full access to your posts. Set your "Who can quote" however you want, I'll always be able to quote-post all your public posts with no problem and with no resistance.

So what chance does Mastodon have then? Mastodon which doesn't even know what permissions are? Developed by Eugen Rochko who actually has a history of head-butting with Mike Macgirvin, and who would never take any step towards anything that Mike has ever developed?

I'm commenting from Hubzilla right now, and I'm also on (streams). And I can tell you: If you make any of your posts "un-quote-post-able", this still won't make my Share buttons on Hubzilla and (streams) disappear.

CC: @Stefan Bohacek @FinchHaven sfba

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Sharkey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate

@Newsmast Foundation It's next to impossible to cover everything anyway.

You'd have to follow a lot of sources. Not everything gets reposted/repeated/boosted/renoted; for example, Mike Macgirvin's development news are always private.

And how do you, as a newscaster, want to keep up with the constant creation of new Forkeys?

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Forkey #Forkeys

@Stefan Bohacek Long as you don't go all the way down the rabbit hole that's Forkeys...

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Misskey #Fork #Forkey #Forkeys

@Shoq Well, something is already happening, and more will happen this year. Much of it will stay unnoticed by most Mastodon users, though, because just none of it will happen on Mastodon. Here's an attempt at a prognosis:

If anything, Mastodon itself will develop further away from the rest of the Fediverse. But this rest of the Fediverse is growing stronger, and it doesn't necessarily have to go on aping what Mastodon does, especially not if it breaks the ActivityPub standard. We may reach a point at which lack of compatibility between Mastodon and the rest of the Fediverse can finally be blamed on Mastodon. And we may reach it this year.

The most obvious change visible to Mastodon's eyes is probably happening around the Forkeys. Firefish, 2023's shooting star of the Fediverse, may join FoundKey in Fediverse Heaven unless Kainoa resurfaces. Whether or not this happens, the legacy is already being taken over by the Misskey forks Sharkey and Catodon and the former Firefish fork Iceshrimp which has been rebased to more up-to-date Misskey itself. None of the three aim to be minimalist projects.

Hubzilla has a hot year ahead of it, at least I hope so. The Hubzilla Association has been founded recently, taking care of organisation, publicity etc. Its very own President is working on his own third-party advancements, especially new UIs, both general-purpose and specialised AFAIK. A blog-style UI is in development elsewhere. I'd be surprised if none of them saw the light of day this year. Not to mention main dev Mario's own plans for Hubzilla 9 which may come more quickly if the Association manages to reel in a few more devs.

And then there's (streams), as unnoticed by the Mastodon crowd as Hubzilla. Mike not only wants to turn its backend inside-out and rework it entirely, but he has already begun. Knowing Mike and how fast he is, (streams) may be even more awesome than it is already now before summer.

So, what I'd really like to see is something that, while highly unlikely, might catch the attention of not few Mastodon users, namely Mike's proposals being officially accepted into the ActivityPub standard, including but not limited to nomadic identity. Mastodon wouldn't adopt any of them if this happened, at least not right away. But the Forkeys certainly would. If they managed a way to go nomadic without adopting the channel model from Hubzilla and (streams), they'd have another big advantage over Mastodon. Enough stories by Forkey users of how they survived the sudden death of their home instance because they had at least one clone, and more and more Mastodon users would be sold, especially those who had to "move" manually because their home had announced its shutdown or simply vanished.

But again, this is unlikely to happen.

More realistically, third-party add-ons for (streams) being developed, and be it Hubzilla apps being forked and ported.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forkeys #Firefish #Sharkey #Catodon #Iceshrimp